To those on your side of the fence, "they" is me, Abraham. But I don't mind.
The left's hate and inchoate vitriol couches the fear that there is something brewing out here that doesn't bode well for their slouch to Gomorrah, and that keep me warm on cold nights.
agreed: "they" is an over-used generic term that anyone can apply to their foes.
and both sides use it, but that post was motivated by a Tucker Carlson spot where he used "they" about twenty times - they're doing this and that and everything else, they're ruining our country, they're wrecking the economy, they're eating our babies, they, they, they
It's just cheap, unspecific, unsupported rhetoric used to rile up your supporters, and it works. My point is that it just raises the temperature and keeps non-thinking emotions at a boiling point but Doesn't Solve Problems. And America needs to start solving problems, instead of just pointing fingers.
Ted Cruz once said that just sitting down with a Democrat was treason. Nothing's (border, drugs, trafficking, whatever) nothing's gonna get fixed with that attitude.
But I bet you and I could sit down and come up with some common ground and some compromises and maybe half-fix something, which is better than no-fix nothing.
anyway, thanks as always for your comments. I think civil discourse is the only road back.
On the other end of the spectrum is a human being who is a human who is simply being. One who embodies the Holy Spirit. Most people have a sense of what that is without having to be told.
the amount of "projection" of human flaws and faults onto others has become so common that it almost isn't noticed. For example, Trump endlessly projects his own weaknesses onto "crooked Hillary" "Lyin' Ted" "Crazy Bernie". "Sleepy Joe" - I suspect soon that'll become "Loser Joe".
What we are seeing is end stage egoism--its climax and denouement. It’s a case of the human being mistaking oneself for something he/she is not. This ego is a tortured soul who can not be wrong, who must always be right and who must win while others must lose. “They” must lose for this ego man to win.” This ego speaks the language of deception. Hate and fear of the other is its reality.
This post wasn't about war and economy; it was about Trump's repeated use of "they" in his speeches. They are weaponizing the justice system, they are persecuting him, they hate America, they're coming for your guns, ...
So I'm asking, who are "they"?
And there are some political precedents, as in Hitler's calculated use of the term.
Frank posted a link claiming that Biden was also playing the "they" game, but that link showed Biden referring specifically to Trump and the Republican Party.
I'm referring here to Trump's repeated claims that a nebulous, undefined enemy called "they" are behind all his troubles, and "they" are out to get you and Americans, and he, Trump, will Save America from "them".
It's a post about his constant fear-mongering about an undefined, nebulous enemy. The bad guys called "They"
(let's save discussion of who was better on war and the economy for another day.)
thanks GG, that kind of proves my point, how "They" is just an un-named open-ended enemy that anyone can project their own favorite bad guys onto.
So I've added your WEF and UN to the list of "Theys" who are bringing drugs, bringing crime, they're rapists, they rigged the election, they're weaponizing the justice system and persecuting trump, indoctrinating our kids, high on government weed, etc etc.
Fentanyl made in China and India, coming in through southern border.
Agreed, gotta clean up that open border. I'm guessing whoever wins in Nov will build a wall, but it won't stop fentanyl coming in - planes, ships, northern border - where there's a demand, there's a supply.
Human trafficking is an ugly world-wide industry, been going on forever; closing southern border won't stop that. Nothing will stop that.
"They" in this context are the collectivists and the elite managerial and corporatist class that have aligned politically with a collectivist movement because of the shared goal of more horded power and wealth. And from my side of the political fence, the "they" criticism directed at me is louder and more vile.
Signed, Irredeemable deplorable semi-fascist Nazi that is a cult supporter of Donald Trump.
Robert Eno makes a good point about my misinterpretation of your comment, Frank.
Yes, you're right, there are different groups of "elite managerial and corporate class" with different groups aligning with different candidates (eg, George Soros on the Left, Koch brothers on the Right).
I think there's a cautionary tale here about sweeping generalizations and the abuse of language.
But I thought it was worth noting that every day Trump and his surrogates refer to some nebulous "They" who are out to get Trump and destroy America.
If you can provide examples from the Left, here's an opportunity.
Do you really need me to list all of the divisive "they" labels and imagery that old Joe and the Democrats have used? Character assassination and negative branding of half the nation is their current playbook.
I agree that Trump does the same, and the reason that you cannot see the equivalent from the Democrats is that you got used to that and also got used to the GOP ignoring it and taking the higher road. But the character assassination and branding has worked for the Democrats, and so Trump just took the page out of their own playbook... and liberal heads exploded..."Hey! We can call you names, but you cannot call us names!"
Think of this game as if product companies advertised against competing brands instead of focusing on the positive of their brands. For example, what if Coke put out adds that the CEO of Pepsi was guilty of sexual misconduct, and hinted that they use cancer-causing ingredients in their recipe, and foreign slave labor, to reduce the cost and make a higher profit. Pepsi then takes Coke to civil court, but it ends up in Manhattan where the jury finds for the defendant because the plaintiff is a known Trump supporter.
Democrats have been doing this and are have ramped it up after their 2016 defeat. Trump and his supporters have had enough and are doing the same.
Frank, I read the article you linked, and actually Biden was very specific in calling out (13 times) very specifically: "Trump," "the Republican Party," and "MAGA Republicans." He didn't use the nebulous attach-to-anyone "they."
OK, let's agree then that it's become too common practice in politics. And it doesn't matter who started it.
And think about how much big money gets spent on negative ads, by candidates on both sides,
So I think we both agree that parties should instead present their platforms as positive statements: this is what we hope to do to make your lives better. This is what we stand for. Instead of We're the Good Guys and You're the Bad Guys.
Hi Frank, I agree that "they" can be applied to different groups in different contexts, but when you see "they" as the "elite managerial and corporatist class" - doesn't that describe Trump and his Mar-a-Lago donor class? Aren't "they" the ones clinging to power?
To me, Trump is the epitome of the "elite managerial and corporatist class" - not to mention his cavalcade of advisors and apologists who are Harvard Law School graduates?
I can only shake my head when I hear Ted Cruz, Ron Desantis, Steve Bannon, etc etc railing against the Harvard elites. THat's like people wearing red shirts railing against people wearing red shirts.
Signed, irredeemable communist baby-eating supporter of ... Arnold Schwarzegger.
Both Trump and Kennedy are establishment-connected people that are anti-establishment. Bernie was anti-establishment until they bought him off. Neither Trump no Kennedy can be bought off. They are independent in their financial wants and needs.
That is the evidence. The evidence is that Joe Biden and the Democrats have take over the old GOP spot as being the big Wall Street, banking and corporate donor benefactors. Big government loves big corporations and the feeling is mutual. They both like the big war industry and making sure that the US government corporate ATM is pumping out consistent "free" cash... that then flakes off some bucks for the professional looter administrators like Old Joe. The old GOP is in on it too... just lacking the same seat at the feeding trough.
Trump has been consistent in his positions on this stuff going back 25 years. He thinks our foreign policy and domestic economic policies have gutted the economic middle class condition. He is correct. The Democrats are committed to keeping up the same status quo... the march toward a globalist collectivist utopia... the continuation of the Global Order that supports high Wall Street returns even as it bankrupts the US and destroys the economic lives of the bottom 80%.
The establishment is filled with collectivists on the Democrat side (liberalism is baby collectivism as practiced in the US and other Western countries) and fake capitalist on both the Democrat and GOP side.
The only way forward is an America-first agenda. That is the anti-establishment agenda.
first, thank you Frank for a reasoned argument, and you do make some good points. Also appreciate your willingness to see guilt and wrong-doingness on both sides. For sure the higher echelons of both parties are deeply influenced by the highest donors. And your comment about a march toward a "utopia" also resonates with me; I'm a committed pragmatist, and I don't believe in utopias (besides, my might be different than yours) because they're an example of winner-take-all mentality. That's part of the big problem with political parties today; their unwillingness to get "some" of what they want (rather than "all") in order to get something done. The rare bipartisan bill on immigration reform is an example of 2 opposing parties finding some compromise agreement in the middle - we both get something, but not all, that we wanted. (Too bad Trump jumps in to kill it, just to improve his own chances of re-election)
Overall, I agree that there's too much corporate corruption and influence and "dark money" all round (and Citizens United didn't help). But then it's a question then of the degree of wrongful behavior by the various players. The Dem's Menendez looks like a poster boy for corruption, just like [fill in the blank] on the Right.
But this post wasn't about assigning guilt or apportioning blame; it was about political methodology, and it was sparked by listening to a recent Trump speech where he said "they" are doing this and that about a dozen times, so I thought it worth drawing attention to his ubiquitous use of this particular political tactic. It just rolls off his tongue without hesitation: "they" are out to get me, "they" are weaponizing the justice system, "they" hate America.
So I'm just bringing attention to this (for me) disturbing trend. And I like the title and the title pic.
the story behind the "favorite" author comes from the only two reports of Trump's reading material. His former wife said in an interview that "Hitler's Speeches" was his bedside reading material, and Michael D'Antonio (author of Trump's "authorized" biography) said the only book he ever saw in Trump's office was the same "Hitler's Speeches" - so it was a facetious remark, but not without some sources.
But yes, Robert, it was an insulting comment, and I'll delete it from the post. No sense giving the opposition a self-imposed error to jump on.
I know that evidence, AW. It is not the same as saying Hitler is his favorite author. I doubt that Mr. Trump has a favorite author because I'm not sure he has ever really read a book.
President Biden is working hard with his administration to make all average working American’s lives better. Trump only cares about himself and has shown over and over that he couldn’t care less about anyone else!
But maybe Trump is the better communicator? Or salesman? His followers have bought his snake-oil and have zero doubt in Trump or his lies.
I agree that, being a life-long celebrity narcissist, he doesn't give a shit about anyone else, but try to tell that to his disciples. I give trump credit for being the Greatest Conman in American History.
Even after he's dead some people will still believe he (and Elvis) are still alive.
"Next, Next Shortest Poem in the World":
Them?
Ahem!
(author unknown)
To those on your side of the fence, "they" is me, Abraham. But I don't mind.
The left's hate and inchoate vitriol couches the fear that there is something brewing out here that doesn't bode well for their slouch to Gomorrah, and that keep me warm on cold nights.
https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/-white-rural-rage-looks-at-the-most-likely-group-to-abandon-democratic-norms-204922949864
agreed: "they" is an over-used generic term that anyone can apply to their foes.
and both sides use it, but that post was motivated by a Tucker Carlson spot where he used "they" about twenty times - they're doing this and that and everything else, they're ruining our country, they're wrecking the economy, they're eating our babies, they, they, they
It's just cheap, unspecific, unsupported rhetoric used to rile up your supporters, and it works. My point is that it just raises the temperature and keeps non-thinking emotions at a boiling point but Doesn't Solve Problems. And America needs to start solving problems, instead of just pointing fingers.
Ted Cruz once said that just sitting down with a Democrat was treason. Nothing's (border, drugs, trafficking, whatever) nothing's gonna get fixed with that attitude.
But I bet you and I could sit down and come up with some common ground and some compromises and maybe half-fix something, which is better than no-fix nothing.
anyway, thanks as always for your comments. I think civil discourse is the only road back.
On the other end of the spectrum is a human being who is a human who is simply being. One who embodies the Holy Spirit. Most people have a sense of what that is without having to be told.
This ego believes others are doing to him the very things he wants to do to others. Namely, make them pay.
the amount of "projection" of human flaws and faults onto others has become so common that it almost isn't noticed. For example, Trump endlessly projects his own weaknesses onto "crooked Hillary" "Lyin' Ted" "Crazy Bernie". "Sleepy Joe" - I suspect soon that'll become "Loser Joe".
It must really infuriate him to see President Biden do well. Especially since he is crashing and burning.
What we are seeing is end stage egoism--its climax and denouement. It’s a case of the human being mistaking oneself for something he/she is not. This ego is a tortured soul who can not be wrong, who must always be right and who must win while others must lose. “They” must lose for this ego man to win.” This ego speaks the language of deception. Hate and fear of the other is its reality.
thanks Susan, always insightful
There was less war and the economy was better with Trump.
Good to hear from you again, GG.
This post wasn't about war and economy; it was about Trump's repeated use of "they" in his speeches. They are weaponizing the justice system, they are persecuting him, they hate America, they're coming for your guns, ...
So I'm asking, who are "they"?
And there are some political precedents, as in Hitler's calculated use of the term.
Frank posted a link claiming that Biden was also playing the "they" game, but that link showed Biden referring specifically to Trump and the Republican Party.
I'm referring here to Trump's repeated claims that a nebulous, undefined enemy called "they" are behind all his troubles, and "they" are out to get you and Americans, and he, Trump, will Save America from "them".
It's a post about his constant fear-mongering about an undefined, nebulous enemy. The bad guys called "They"
(let's save discussion of who was better on war and the economy for another day.)
The WEF an the UN, just for starters.
thanks GG, that kind of proves my point, how "They" is just an un-named open-ended enemy that anyone can project their own favorite bad guys onto.
So I've added your WEF and UN to the list of "Theys" who are bringing drugs, bringing crime, they're rapists, they rigged the election, they're weaponizing the justice system and persecuting trump, indoctrinating our kids, high on government weed, etc etc.
"They" have been pretty busy.
Quick quiz, Abraham:
The US is in a crisis of Fentanyl addiction and death.
Where is all that Fentanyl coming from, and who is bringing it.
The child trafficking industry is booming in the US. Where are these children coming from, and who is handling the logistics?
Fentanyl made in China and India, coming in through southern border.
Agreed, gotta clean up that open border. I'm guessing whoever wins in Nov will build a wall, but it won't stop fentanyl coming in - planes, ships, northern border - where there's a demand, there's a supply.
Human trafficking is an ugly world-wide industry, been going on forever; closing southern border won't stop that. Nothing will stop that.
"They" in this context are the collectivists and the elite managerial and corporatist class that have aligned politically with a collectivist movement because of the shared goal of more horded power and wealth. And from my side of the political fence, the "they" criticism directed at me is louder and more vile.
Signed, Irredeemable deplorable semi-fascist Nazi that is a cult supporter of Donald Trump.
Robert Eno makes a good point about my misinterpretation of your comment, Frank.
Yes, you're right, there are different groups of "elite managerial and corporate class" with different groups aligning with different candidates (eg, George Soros on the Left, Koch brothers on the Right).
I think there's a cautionary tale here about sweeping generalizations and the abuse of language.
But I thought it was worth noting that every day Trump and his surrogates refer to some nebulous "They" who are out to get Trump and destroy America.
If you can provide examples from the Left, here's an opportunity.
Joe Biden is also doing the "they" act. https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-bidens-washington/joe-bidens-this-is-not-normal-speech
Do you really need me to list all of the divisive "they" labels and imagery that old Joe and the Democrats have used? Character assassination and negative branding of half the nation is their current playbook.
I agree that Trump does the same, and the reason that you cannot see the equivalent from the Democrats is that you got used to that and also got used to the GOP ignoring it and taking the higher road. But the character assassination and branding has worked for the Democrats, and so Trump just took the page out of their own playbook... and liberal heads exploded..."Hey! We can call you names, but you cannot call us names!"
Think of this game as if product companies advertised against competing brands instead of focusing on the positive of their brands. For example, what if Coke put out adds that the CEO of Pepsi was guilty of sexual misconduct, and hinted that they use cancer-causing ingredients in their recipe, and foreign slave labor, to reduce the cost and make a higher profit. Pepsi then takes Coke to civil court, but it ends up in Manhattan where the jury finds for the defendant because the plaintiff is a known Trump supporter.
Democrats have been doing this and are have ramped it up after their 2016 defeat. Trump and his supporters have had enough and are doing the same.
Frank, I read the article you linked, and actually Biden was very specific in calling out (13 times) very specifically: "Trump," "the Republican Party," and "MAGA Republicans." He didn't use the nebulous attach-to-anyone "they."
There's a difference. Words matter.
OK, let's agree then that it's become too common practice in politics. And it doesn't matter who started it.
And think about how much big money gets spent on negative ads, by candidates on both sides,
So I think we both agree that parties should instead present their platforms as positive statements: this is what we hope to do to make your lives better. This is what we stand for. Instead of We're the Good Guys and You're the Bad Guys.
Then let people vote on that.
Hi Frank, I agree that "they" can be applied to different groups in different contexts, but when you see "they" as the "elite managerial and corporatist class" - doesn't that describe Trump and his Mar-a-Lago donor class? Aren't "they" the ones clinging to power?
To me, Trump is the epitome of the "elite managerial and corporatist class" - not to mention his cavalcade of advisors and apologists who are Harvard Law School graduates?
I can only shake my head when I hear Ted Cruz, Ron Desantis, Steve Bannon, etc etc railing against the Harvard elites. THat's like people wearing red shirts railing against people wearing red shirts.
Signed, irredeemable communist baby-eating supporter of ... Arnold Schwarzegger.
Both Trump and Kennedy are establishment-connected people that are anti-establishment. Bernie was anti-establishment until they bought him off. Neither Trump no Kennedy can be bought off. They are independent in their financial wants and needs.
Frank's comment only targets "elite corporatists" who have aligned with the "collectivists." He's just name calling, not being inconsistent.
Frankly, saying Hitler is Trump's favorite author seems like name calling to me too.
That is the evidence. The evidence is that Joe Biden and the Democrats have take over the old GOP spot as being the big Wall Street, banking and corporate donor benefactors. Big government loves big corporations and the feeling is mutual. They both like the big war industry and making sure that the US government corporate ATM is pumping out consistent "free" cash... that then flakes off some bucks for the professional looter administrators like Old Joe. The old GOP is in on it too... just lacking the same seat at the feeding trough.
Trump has been consistent in his positions on this stuff going back 25 years. He thinks our foreign policy and domestic economic policies have gutted the economic middle class condition. He is correct. The Democrats are committed to keeping up the same status quo... the march toward a globalist collectivist utopia... the continuation of the Global Order that supports high Wall Street returns even as it bankrupts the US and destroys the economic lives of the bottom 80%.
The establishment is filled with collectivists on the Democrat side (liberalism is baby collectivism as practiced in the US and other Western countries) and fake capitalist on both the Democrat and GOP side.
The only way forward is an America-first agenda. That is the anti-establishment agenda.
first, thank you Frank for a reasoned argument, and you do make some good points. Also appreciate your willingness to see guilt and wrong-doingness on both sides. For sure the higher echelons of both parties are deeply influenced by the highest donors. And your comment about a march toward a "utopia" also resonates with me; I'm a committed pragmatist, and I don't believe in utopias (besides, my might be different than yours) because they're an example of winner-take-all mentality. That's part of the big problem with political parties today; their unwillingness to get "some" of what they want (rather than "all") in order to get something done. The rare bipartisan bill on immigration reform is an example of 2 opposing parties finding some compromise agreement in the middle - we both get something, but not all, that we wanted. (Too bad Trump jumps in to kill it, just to improve his own chances of re-election)
Overall, I agree that there's too much corporate corruption and influence and "dark money" all round (and Citizens United didn't help). But then it's a question then of the degree of wrongful behavior by the various players. The Dem's Menendez looks like a poster boy for corruption, just like [fill in the blank] on the Right.
But this post wasn't about assigning guilt or apportioning blame; it was about political methodology, and it was sparked by listening to a recent Trump speech where he said "they" are doing this and that about a dozen times, so I thought it worth drawing attention to his ubiquitous use of this particular political tactic. It just rolls off his tongue without hesitation: "they" are out to get me, "they" are weaponizing the justice system, "they" hate America.
So I'm just bringing attention to this (for me) disturbing trend. And I like the title and the title pic.
Just sayin'
the story behind the "favorite" author comes from the only two reports of Trump's reading material. His former wife said in an interview that "Hitler's Speeches" was his bedside reading material, and Michael D'Antonio (author of Trump's "authorized" biography) said the only book he ever saw in Trump's office was the same "Hitler's Speeches" - so it was a facetious remark, but not without some sources.
But yes, Robert, it was an insulting comment, and I'll delete it from the post. No sense giving the opposition a self-imposed error to jump on.
Thanks as always for your honest feedback.
I know that evidence, AW. It is not the same as saying Hitler is his favorite author. I doubt that Mr. Trump has a favorite author because I'm not sure he has ever really read a book.
you mean he doesn't read the Bible every night?
They told me to watch out for guys like you and there you go.
Good post.
President Biden is working hard with his administration to make all average working American’s lives better. Trump only cares about himself and has shown over and over that he couldn’t care less about anyone else!
But maybe Trump is the better communicator? Or salesman? His followers have bought his snake-oil and have zero doubt in Trump or his lies.
I agree that, being a life-long celebrity narcissist, he doesn't give a shit about anyone else, but try to tell that to his disciples. I give trump credit for being the Greatest Conman in American History.
Even after he's dead some people will still believe he (and Elvis) are still alive.
Just like they believe JFK Jr. is still alive! You cannot fix the stupid.